also my guy it has all mythology are connected cause it wont make sense if they didnt overlap since all mythology are canon here its an original take you can stay mad tho
dont know why you saw all of the original take as disrespectful to this culture specifically even tho they do the same to all other mythology like Greeks gods are gundams hell the bible god is not even acknowledged to exist dont know why you losing your shit for this
Do you have any idea what fgo is all about? This franchise was originally an erotic visual novel, there are 'masters' who summon 'servants' through magic to battle with other 'masters'. these servants are often well known characters/dieties and such. And the servants require a 'master's' semen if they run out of mana.
It's just an excuse for people to fantasize about having sex with these characters. So no, they do not need to be historically accurate. Looks like somebody needs to do their research as well.
What it was almost 20 years ago isn't relevant to how it is now. They also stopped doing that specifically to appeal to a larger audience. Probably because they figured they dont need to give people an excuse to wank to anime characters, cause they'll just do it anyway?
So you didn't make a point here. The person who needs to do their research is still you, sorry.
I love the Fate universe but I'm basically onboard with this entirely.
Fun note: Different artists handle the design of the characters, some of which are partnered with Lasengle or work directly in the studio. With that said, they clearly don't fabricate character lore with the intent appeal to a ethnic culture, just the sweaty, angry, unempathetic, simpy culture who dislike having their waifus scrutinized. (One of them felt the need to make 4 posts about it lol, guess boi got triggered bad). I'm sure the controversy was brought up, but somebody in charge was like "nah". I think we all know it comes down to money. A fair or dark skinned version of Quetzalcoatl might drive away parts of their audience who they deem the most profitable..but who knows?
But I think it's important to remember as a Japanese studio, in Japan, a monoculture country, they likely don't care about proper ethnocultural representation, unless it's something more relatable to them. Shinchiro Watanbe is a perfect example of an artist who doesn't run a ship like this, which is (one of the many reasons) why his work is so well received across different audiences.
This was a great though, I'm glad somebody took time to dissect this. It's a shame the first comments where from people just looking to be upset about something.
Part of my frustration is precisely because I enjoy the Fate universe and broader Nasuverse, to me being a fan means wanting the best out of something and calling out when its standards slip. I enjoyed Altera in the Extella games as a character, but she's also my go to example for some writers treating the mythology/history aspect of the franchise as a tedious obligation rather than a feature.
I'm aware of the different artists, for a game like FGO it does help add a lot of variety. And yeah the waifuism is definitely a clear motive for a lot of things in game. I knew what the writers were doing with Mash from her first 'senpai' but she's still a character I like and my main in Type Lumina. It gets annoying when I know exactly why some parts of the game that repulse me were included though.
Also out of curiosity, could I ask how you came across this post? This seems to be the post of mine that attracts the most attention even coming up on a year after posting, and it's somewhat of a mystery to me how people keep finding it.
Neat article and very enlightening in places! I'm a hobbyist at best when it comes to mythology in general, but I am a moderate fan of Type-Moon's (FGO's Publisher) works in general, and would like to offer a few defenses for their myriad bastardizations of the myths presented. I don't aim to undermine or contradict anything in the article, I just hope to provide more in the way of understanding two years later.
For one instance, many iterations of a servant in FGO depend as much on their public persona as any measure of historical or academic fact. Napoleon is as much an incarnation of his armies as he is of the emperor, Sherlock Holmes and James Moriarty are decidedly fictional but nonetheless appear as servants just as presently as figures of confirmed mythology do, Caenis manifests in a feminine body - his wish of immunity to SA being interpreted as being powerful enough to stop it from happening. Their own figures are not immune to this mind you, Minamoto no Raikou - one of the foundational historical figures of what would become modern Japan - manifests as a large breasted woman in an extremely skin-tight violet bodysuit with an extreme mommy complex as excused by some of his dealings with a cow ogre.
In defense of his feminine form, Venus (the goddess, not the planet,) is a giant space-faring sentient robot who perished shortly after Gigantomachia, and other Greek gods also did much to influence other cultures. For instance Mars' body fragmented along Japan and the metal of his body is used in the armor of Sakata Kintoki. Fate plays fast and loose with mythology, so sometimes you get a kooky blonde lucha fanatic and a silly mafia daughter in a jaguar kigurumi as your culture's only representation.
Once again, not offering excuses, just hoping to better explain why their interpretations are the way that they are.
I think Fate is at its best when actively addressing the aspect of popular perception warping the servants, it's why I tend to like berserkers (when their madness enhancement isn't just the artist's fetish like Raikou) and avengers. They're usually done in a way that gives more space for getting things genuinely wrong without undermining the narrative because the whole point is that they're flawed recreations.
Quetzalcoatl was not written in that way, her being white and anti-human sacrifice is supposed to be taken at face value as traits of the actual Quetzalcoatl instead of a result of trying to place a divine spirit into a servant vessel. The genderbend itself isn't even that much of an issue, its the justification and how it implicitly treats Aztec culture.
There's a lot more than just the Aztecs that have ticked me off about Grand Order, not fond of the 'greek gods are alien spaceships' development for example, or Nero and Elizabeth. And my friends who like ancient near eastern mythology despise what Fate has done with it (I still like Fate Gilgamesh as his own character though).
But for me Lostbelt 7 ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back and now I pray the game ends service soon and the LB7 servants never get another appearance, I want those caricatures gone and forgotten and hope they never infest one of the other Fate works I still enjoy.
Lmao LB7 all about Aztecs even the irl stuff is covered and gave us the best character
they didnt portray Tezcatlipoca as evil tho in LB7
also my guy it has all mythology are connected cause it wont make sense if they didnt overlap since all mythology are canon here its an original take you can stay mad tho
dont know why you saw all of the original take as disrespectful to this culture specifically even tho they do the same to all other mythology like Greeks gods are gundams hell the bible god is not even acknowledged to exist dont know why you losing your shit for this
Do you have any idea what fgo is all about? This franchise was originally an erotic visual novel, there are 'masters' who summon 'servants' through magic to battle with other 'masters'. these servants are often well known characters/dieties and such. And the servants require a 'master's' semen if they run out of mana.
It's just an excuse for people to fantasize about having sex with these characters. So no, they do not need to be historically accurate. Looks like somebody needs to do their research as well.
What it was almost 20 years ago isn't relevant to how it is now. They also stopped doing that specifically to appeal to a larger audience. Probably because they figured they dont need to give people an excuse to wank to anime characters, cause they'll just do it anyway?
So you didn't make a point here. The person who needs to do their research is still you, sorry.
I love the Fate universe but I'm basically onboard with this entirely.
Fun note: Different artists handle the design of the characters, some of which are partnered with Lasengle or work directly in the studio. With that said, they clearly don't fabricate character lore with the intent appeal to a ethnic culture, just the sweaty, angry, unempathetic, simpy culture who dislike having their waifus scrutinized. (One of them felt the need to make 4 posts about it lol, guess boi got triggered bad). I'm sure the controversy was brought up, but somebody in charge was like "nah". I think we all know it comes down to money. A fair or dark skinned version of Quetzalcoatl might drive away parts of their audience who they deem the most profitable..but who knows?
But I think it's important to remember as a Japanese studio, in Japan, a monoculture country, they likely don't care about proper ethnocultural representation, unless it's something more relatable to them. Shinchiro Watanbe is a perfect example of an artist who doesn't run a ship like this, which is (one of the many reasons) why his work is so well received across different audiences.
This was a great though, I'm glad somebody took time to dissect this. It's a shame the first comments where from people just looking to be upset about something.
Thank you.
Part of my frustration is precisely because I enjoy the Fate universe and broader Nasuverse, to me being a fan means wanting the best out of something and calling out when its standards slip. I enjoyed Altera in the Extella games as a character, but she's also my go to example for some writers treating the mythology/history aspect of the franchise as a tedious obligation rather than a feature.
I'm aware of the different artists, for a game like FGO it does help add a lot of variety. And yeah the waifuism is definitely a clear motive for a lot of things in game. I knew what the writers were doing with Mash from her first 'senpai' but she's still a character I like and my main in Type Lumina. It gets annoying when I know exactly why some parts of the game that repulse me were included though.
Also out of curiosity, could I ask how you came across this post? This seems to be the post of mine that attracts the most attention even coming up on a year after posting, and it's somewhat of a mystery to me how people keep finding it.
Neat article and very enlightening in places! I'm a hobbyist at best when it comes to mythology in general, but I am a moderate fan of Type-Moon's (FGO's Publisher) works in general, and would like to offer a few defenses for their myriad bastardizations of the myths presented. I don't aim to undermine or contradict anything in the article, I just hope to provide more in the way of understanding two years later.
For one instance, many iterations of a servant in FGO depend as much on their public persona as any measure of historical or academic fact. Napoleon is as much an incarnation of his armies as he is of the emperor, Sherlock Holmes and James Moriarty are decidedly fictional but nonetheless appear as servants just as presently as figures of confirmed mythology do, Caenis manifests in a feminine body - his wish of immunity to SA being interpreted as being powerful enough to stop it from happening. Their own figures are not immune to this mind you, Minamoto no Raikou - one of the foundational historical figures of what would become modern Japan - manifests as a large breasted woman in an extremely skin-tight violet bodysuit with an extreme mommy complex as excused by some of his dealings with a cow ogre.
In defense of his feminine form, Venus (the goddess, not the planet,) is a giant space-faring sentient robot who perished shortly after Gigantomachia, and other Greek gods also did much to influence other cultures. For instance Mars' body fragmented along Japan and the metal of his body is used in the armor of Sakata Kintoki. Fate plays fast and loose with mythology, so sometimes you get a kooky blonde lucha fanatic and a silly mafia daughter in a jaguar kigurumi as your culture's only representation.
Once again, not offering excuses, just hoping to better explain why their interpretations are the way that they are.
I think Fate is at its best when actively addressing the aspect of popular perception warping the servants, it's why I tend to like berserkers (when their madness enhancement isn't just the artist's fetish like Raikou) and avengers. They're usually done in a way that gives more space for getting things genuinely wrong without undermining the narrative because the whole point is that they're flawed recreations.
Quetzalcoatl was not written in that way, her being white and anti-human sacrifice is supposed to be taken at face value as traits of the actual Quetzalcoatl instead of a result of trying to place a divine spirit into a servant vessel. The genderbend itself isn't even that much of an issue, its the justification and how it implicitly treats Aztec culture.
There's a lot more than just the Aztecs that have ticked me off about Grand Order, not fond of the 'greek gods are alien spaceships' development for example, or Nero and Elizabeth. And my friends who like ancient near eastern mythology despise what Fate has done with it (I still like Fate Gilgamesh as his own character though).
But for me Lostbelt 7 ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back and now I pray the game ends service soon and the LB7 servants never get another appearance, I want those caricatures gone and forgotten and hope they never infest one of the other Fate works I still enjoy.